#80 Are BJJ Belts A thing Of The Past: Has new school BJJ disrupted the Jiu-jitsu Hierarchy?

Do belts still matter? Is the martial arts Hierarchy outdated? Which ever side of the fence you are on seniority and authority provides structure and gives direction. If you love the modern movement in BJJ toward No-Gi submission grappling, you may not respect the old ways and don’t see the need for belts as long as you are skilful grappler.
There are many world class athletes who have only trained a short period of time and built very effective games that are beating much more experienced blackbelts.
From 10th Planet to DDS and now the B-Team, do these rebels of the new school have the next step in the evolution of the art? Or are the traditional standards of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu still relevant and key to developing great grapplers?

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, it’s JT and I’m excited because I’ve just booked my flights and I’m coming to a city near you . I will be in Poland and Germany in July. Then I’ll be in the UK and Scotland in August. Then I’ll be making the trip over to United States and Canada for September. If you would like a Bulletproof for BJ J seminar , contact us email JT, Bulletproof for bj.com and book your seminar today

Speaker 2: 0:30

Better listen. Very carefully. A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready, essentially at this point, the fight is over. So you pretty much flow with the goal who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limit this power. I am ready,

Speaker 1: 0:55

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Bulletproof for BJ J podcast. I’m JT. And I’m the funny one. I’m Joey and I’m the serious guy. That’s how it goes around here. Ladies and gentlemen, actually, that’s not true, not true ladies . <laugh> it’s not true at all. But , uh , today we’re discussing something, which is an interesting topic. BJ J belts and seniority is the hierarchy of belts. A thing of the past, the games change people Nogi has revolutionized or the modern Nogi game or new wave jujitsu has changed jujitsu culture. And I feel that this is coming up a bit more. That’s what you should think, bro . Right ? I just got here to black belt. The hierarchy still exists. I’m telling you it doesn’t matter . I’m bringing it back, mate, whatever people need to respect the strap around my waist . You are too attached. <laugh> says the guy who’s like, you guys can attest to this before I got my black belt. Every episode was like , uh , says the brown belt, Joey, I’m a black belt. Just reinforcing it every time. Yeah, please. Anything I can have over this guy, you know, whatever. It’s fine. You know, it is guys, you’ve got an uppity sibling. They might be younger than you. Maybe they’re your twin. It doesn’t matter. But taller, you know, tiny little bit taller, possibly not as handsome, not as strong. And for whatever reason, people tend to like them more. Maybe they’re just less edgy. You’ve gotta keep it real. That’s what it is. And so once you understand the dynamic you’ll film me and you relate to me better. Otherwise you can just keep liking Joey <laugh> guys , the hierarchy piece. H cuz it is interesting because I believe there is value in going into a martial art . And even though they talk about this a bit, you might have someone who’s a doctor or a lawyer, very high level profession, but they’re a white belt. Yeah . And you’ve got a guy who’s a street sweeper. Who’s a brown belt. Yeah . In this environment, this guy or girl for a lot of reasons is superior like and skills, experience, knowledge, everything. And for good reason, they’ve put the time in. They’ve done the work. Yeah , definitely hypo . Yes. And, and if you work hard provided you’re in a good situation. You , you can get there. So it doesn’t matter your financial background. So that’s the, that’s the democratization of hard work within jujitsu. You know, being a lawyer is not open to everyone in society, but being a Matt Savage years . Yeah. Rich or poor . What I want to talk about here is that BJ Nogi and B J GE it’s split. It’s changed. And you’ve got people out there. Like we were talking about Jay rod of B team, younger brother to a rod . He’s a blue belt allegedly. And he just won the ADCC trials . Younger brother to Nicky rod , Nicky , rod . Sorry. And he’s is aro tennis player. No Arod is a famous baseball player. <laugh> and now entrepreneur. Oh , right on. Thanks for tuning in Arod we appreciate you. So I think it’s one of those things that you’re seeing young guys come through in Nogi and just be like, what’s a belt, you know, like disrespectful, quite frankly. It is got a message for those kids. <laugh>. So before we go into the , uh , this new generation and how that is changing things, talk to me about the hierarchy. Tell me how does it play out? So I , how you know , why does it exist? And , and what’s good about it. I didn’t fully understand. I mean, I coming from a traditional martial arts background, when I showed up to the training hall in TaeKwonDo, you had to bow on the way in, you had to bow and shake hands for, you had to bow to everyone’s senior to you. There’s so much bowing. You get really good poster , chain muscles like good mornings. But basically when I came to jujitsu, it was so informal, Brazilian jujitsu struck me as informal. But when I trained in Brazil, it wasn’t, you did have to shake everyone’s hand. And you , you know, if a higher belt called you to roll, you, you do that. You can’t call a higher belt to roll. Right. That was a real serious pro thing. If a higher belt rolls into you and kicks your face off, you take it well, and you move out the way because whatever the higher belt’s doing is more important than whatever you are doing. Yeah. And , and wrongly or rightly this is how it’s structured the rules of the hierarchy. Yeah. And so when you are lower on the totem pole, you don’t like, it you’re like that sucks. Why do they get special treatment? But then when you’ve committed 10 years of your life to something you’re like, well maybe there’s something to this. Yeah. I , I don’t think you go that this sucks. You’re like, I can’t wait till I’m there. <laugh> that’s really can’t wait till I’m the boss. Yeah. I can’t wait till I can kick mother in the face and not be reprimanded for it. That’s I think that’s kind of how it works and that’s maybe that’s fine. Right? Maybe because, because it’s , it’s aspirational. You’re like, wow, I’m gonna , I won’t always be a scummy white belt. No. And respect to the white belts. <laugh> not at all. You are fodder. Uh , no, <laugh> , you’re not a real person. So you get a blue belt really, and then you might retire, but we’ll see, it’s a war of attrition. We’ll see how many of you stick around. But in truth, when you are a white belt , you think what you’re doing is important. As part of the context of jujitsu , you are important because one day you will be a black belt , but in that moment, you are not, you’re just trying to get a part of this thing. And it’s really important to realize that you , you are within a context, it’s hard for you to impress your ego or your status on that situation. Because in this context you are not important. And, and that’s okay. That is part of the humility of jujitsu . And I think that’s the thing that I’ve loved about jujitsu is the level of humility that I’ve had to learn. At least doesn’t matter what I did before I suck at this, I gotta get better. And that’s cool. I , I have actually seen in other spheres of martial arts striking particularly way more way more arrogance, like, oh yeah, but I teed that guy. Or , you know, I kick that guy in the head here . I’m better than him. No, no , you’re not really, you know, you’ve only done a thing for a short period of time. And I, I guess it’s out of context, but if we think about apprenticeships back in the day, if you not even modern apprenticeships in a trade, if you wanted to be a sculptor or a builder, you had to apprentice under some master for years and years and years before you could kind of go out on your own mm-hmm <affirmative> and there’s, there’s great value in that because there’s so many nuanced things that you can learn. And generally someone who’s superior than you or higher on the totem pole will be more willing to show things to you. If you’re not a , you know, a stuck up kind of, I know it all type person. And generally, as far as learning goes, people do better when they can be open and receptive to learning, you know? Not like, yeah, I know what this is. Yeah. Yeah. My brother does MMA. I , I do USC . I know what’s going on. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. So I guess there’s like a , there’s a , there’s a , there’s an upside and a downside to anything but very much so to the hierarchy piece isn’t there. Yeah . I think from that, from that perspective of you walk out of society and into a training room and the, the way in which the hierarchy is measured has changed. I think that’s very important. I remember listening to , um , a movie director, Francis Ford cap . Okay . Who directed a apocalypse now? Yes. And , uh , it was him talking about film sets and he’s like, the film set is the last of the great hierarchies. Right. He said it still exists in military. He said in film sets. Right. And he’s, you know, and he was talking about the benefits of it and just how it, it is simplistic in nature. It’s top down , everyone knows where they sit. That then means, you know how to act it’s it gives people structure. It’s like , um, there’s no choices here. You , you do what white belts do you do? What, you know, you do what brown belts do, et cetera . And with those parameters gives people direction, makes things simple for them. They don’t have to make decisions. That’s right. Being told what to do. Yeah . It’s like, oh, you’re the leader. Tell me, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And , uh , which we don’t necessarily have in life anyway, that that point could be debated. But I do there’s value in that. There is. And I , and I think from, yeah, in martial arts, like makes things simple. It makes it easy to control the training space. It makes it easy to direct the intention of the student. Cause you’re like, well, this is where you’re at. So this is what you focus on. Definitely. Um, you know, you just keep grinding, you, you should be , you shouldn’t be making those mistakes anymore. Cetera . Yeah . But then there’s also that side of it, which you could argue is like an abuse of it. Yeah. Uh , like, so there’s a good side to like, Hey, if a higher belt asks you to roll, you gotta roll with them . Sure. And there’s a good side to that. There’s some learnings. There’s also a downside. Oh yeah. It opens itself like very much. It’s like any kind of inequality opens itself up to a potential abuse. Doesn’t it? And abuse of power has been the absolute, the, probably the biggest thing. Probably not that it hasn’t been going on for years, but in recent times, probably the last two years we think about social media and what’s going on, it’s come to light. It’s really come to light. That’s right about this. You know? And , and also this idea of black belt entitlement. Yeah . You know, just because you’ve got your black belt, as much as you’ve put in a lot of hard work, it doesn’t give you an excuse to be a bad human, you know, you’re not gonna no, that’s right. You can’t look at someone and go, you’re a white belt . You are not important. Cuz that person still has value and they bring what they bring to the gym, which could be very valuable. And then also it’s the idea that culture, if it’s dictated at the top and does filter down, if you’ve got all bags at the top, are you just, you know, have you got an academy for bags? You know, or that’s right. How does it go? Yeah. If they’re dictating the culture, that’s not cool. No. And I , I think if we, the reason why I wanted to bring this up is someone was saying to me the other day, like, oh , belts, aren’t important skills are because you get people who maybe they’re new to Jisu, but they’re very athletic or they’re very quick learner or they’ve got a great strategy and they start smoking experienced really good people. And then people start to go, oh my goodness, what’s going on here? And that’s where I was gonna talk about, you know, the go there, the new move, the new move, the new wave. No gee jujitsu . So you’ve got like , I , I think I’m not big on this. You’ve obviously it’s good to acknowledge people’s rank. But for example, in 10th planet jujitsu , um , they give belts, but they don’t wear GE . Yeah . What , you never belt at the , at the grading, you get awarded a belt, you wear it, you put it on. Yeah. And then you don’t bring it to training again. Yeah. And then you go put it in the cupboard, right . Yeah . Sure. And I think it’s good to acknowledge people’s achievements, but it’s like, why wouldn’t you just give them rashes? You know? Like, you know, you don’t, you’re never gonna wear a belt. Yeah . And so I feel like that’s a bit NAF , but then there’s, there’s people out there who, you know, like Jay rod of B team has come out as a blue belt now 12 year old blue belt <laugh> dude . But so people are like, oh, he is only trained for a year and a half. That’s. He’s been wrestling his brother forever. His brother’s a wrestler. He’s wrestled. It’s not like this guy just discover grappling before. No, absolutely. This guy, Ken grapple and his older brother has probably beaten him up and bullied him forever. Yeah . You know, he’s had to deal with that his whole life. So even though officially, he’s only trained Jui a year and a half, he’s been on the mats, you know, he’s been working his off. Yeah. And he trains with the best guys in the world. So to me, it’s not surprising that he can come into a Nogi tournament do really well, but he’s not just doing really well. He’s beating black belts. Yeah. Like meeting them, he won the ad C , Z . Like I think he beat Tackett jujitsu in the final and he’s, he’s one of the best in the world. Yeah . So you just go, whoa , my goodness, young guys. Yeah. Quite amazing. And women too, like if we’re looking at our 10th planet as a system, combat jujitsu , Nogi, jujitsu’s popular. Yeah . And some of these new players in the game are they’re messing the gamer to give a bit of context for maybe those who are a bit newer to the jujitsu game. The way that it , the way that it probably is at your academy is it’s still like this in the majority of gyms for most people. And the way that it’s been since the beginning of my take of 14 years of jujitsu , was that , uh , within the sport of Brazil jujitsu , we do, we train both the GE and we do no GE the first gym that I trained at , we would do GE for three quarters of the year. And then in summer we would just do no GE oh , cause the summer new south or the summer Australian Federation comps were no GE . Yeah . So I was like, we do, you know , whatever, nine months of that. And then three months of that. And then, you know , now it’s kind of morphed a bit where most academies will do, oh , we do a couple Nogi session on these days. And then the rest of the days are key . And there’s probably more of a bias towards the GE generally speaking. Now, because of that, it was always just considered that if you do jujitsu, you do both. Yes. And that’s just how it is. And you got a G and you got a belt and you do a bit of Nogi as well. And I know, say for Adam at Alliance, he’s like, you know, I , he values it very highly. He’s like, I won’t grade you unless you train both with me. You can’t just come to one or the other. Sure. Um, excellent. Strongly agree. What we’ve seen though in recent times has been this evolution of strict Nogi gyms. Yeah . That go, you know what, we’re not doing any GE stuff. We’re just doing Nogi and this is given rise to an , an explosion of Nogi jujitsu technique, new competitions. Very exciting sport. Yeah . To the point where it’s now it’s own sport. Yeah. You know , you’ve got these no geek comps. They’re like, we don’t care what belt you are, like toss you in the fire. It gives an opportunity of a blue belt to be able to grapple against a black belt. But at the end of the day, they’re kind of moved like, because that sport is now so specialized, it’s almost moved away from the belt. The belts are relevant, cuz that’s from another sport. Yes. It’s like, I’m a no geek guy and this is my skillset . No geek submission grappling. Yeah. And when you look at what they’re doing with the ADCC every year, they’re trying to make it bigger and bigger. And this year is by far the biggest in terms of how many people entered the selectives in , uh , the states and how intense that was to get in sick matches. Oh , amazing. Some of the best matches you’ll ever see, you can see a cool highlight on flow . There’s a , there’s a flow grab , did a high, you don’t have to pay for it. No, but that, but then also let’s look at the rise of flow grappling. Right. They are trying to be the ESPN of non-conventional sports. Yeah . And they’ve really, you know, it’s , they’ve got, they cover everything, flow wrestling, flow, grappling, flow judo. And the thing about it is this back in the day, you would basically try to cultivate a game which applied GE and no GE . Yeah. But that, that’s just not how it is now. You can’t get good enough. No , if you really aspire to be exceptionally good, you , you have to choose now, if you are like, oh , I do a bit of both and that’s cool. No problem at all. But the interesting thing, and I think it probably speaks a little bit more to the personalities of people who are championing the way of the Nogi. If it , if we’re looking at guys like Gordon Ryan or Craig Jones, or even Eddie Bravo himself, these guys are kind of contrarian. They’re like, yeah, we’re kind of against the system. Yeah . You know , even though Eddie’s very proud to have been graded under the Machados and always shows his lineage, these guys don’t care. They don’t want to pay Jews to anyone really. They’re just like, no , we’re good at this. We do our thing and whoever else, you know? And so there’s a very kind of rebels of the underground type vibe that we, you know, we do grappling, which is cooler than what those guys in the pajamas do. And, and look, I mean, I’m not saying that is the case. I believe there is great value in both, but it is challenging this mainstream idea of this seniority of the old guard bowing or you know, the whole structure can’t ask higher belts to roll. Gotta say yes to a high , all that stuff. Yeah. It’s like and no gig class we throw down that’s it’s just get up it . I don’t , I don’t even give a what belt you have. Yeah. That’s can , can , can you like, can you roll? Yeah . Are you good? Are you tough? That’s it? It’s not. Are we doing hill hooks? Yeah. We’re definitely doing you better. Believe it. Yeah . You just tap quickly. Okay . Within that. And I can speak to this personally. There’s always like for the old guard, it’s always grinding this transition cuz you’re like, I’m not ready for this. Yeah . I was used to the old system. Yeah. You’re like, I don’t, I’m not ready to face that. And that’s a , that’s a reality. It’s like, it’s like, yeah, you , you have to either adapt or , or you have to choose to sit out or, you know , stick to your own party. Like yeah . I don’t know if there’s actually anyone that’s like really truly defending it. Like, I don’t know if there’s anyone, any jujitsu proponents out there who are , who are hanging on Nogi stuff. I think everyone loves it. Definitely people who are within more, the traditional realm will say, oh, well we do self defense . You know, this is the origins. Yeah . We’re not doing that spiny on the ground nonsense. Like, no , we do real street defense BJJ . It’s like, oh look. Yeah. Okay, cool. You gotta pick your niche. Right. People still trying to make money off their, their heritage, their culture. I’m not hating on that. But there is plenty of like world star videos of some kid pull , like some kids trying to punch him and stomp him and he pulls out a heel hook . It’s like, bro, you’re wearing Jordan’s you’re definitely getting heel hooked. Yeah . You know, like some skinny dudes, like he’s done a bit of jujitsu. He’s done a bit of leg locks. Like I think what we’re seeing is some of these moves that were reserved, like within gee jujitsu for the longest time foot locks were considered. Oh it’s dirty. That was like a very Gracie dogma. Yeah . Because my first coach was under Colleen Gracie . It’s like, oh, we don’t do foot locks . No , but interestingly enough, if you look at the lineages, like father, he taught the ghetto guys. He wasn’t teaching the rich people in Rio. He was going to the faves and he taught foot locks and they were really into it. And they were really freaking good at him . You know? And so it’s interest , that’s why foot locks were talked down upon. Yeah . Because of the preeminent sort of community there in Brazil. Yes. Right. Similar to the Japanese Russian. Like we’re not attacking the legs anymore in judo. Yes. Yeah. Right. That kind of vibe. But it’s , it’s interesting to see the comeback because it’s so effective, you know, and absolutely mate it’s I guess what we’re looking at now is if you’ve got a really keen blue belt who knows leg locks and you’re a slightly older black belt and you don’t know leg locks, you might have a career ending injury right there. Yeah. And at the very least you’re probably gonna have to tap a bunch of times in your role . Yeah. Like’s the reality. Whereas in the gate , maybe you could just smash ’em up and no hill hooks allow and you got a superior grip game and that whole thing. But yeah. I mean , I speak to that there’s guys, you know , there’s, there’s blue belts, there’s white belts at Alliance that , um, put those , put me in some precarious positions and I’m like, holy. I dunno what you’re doing right now. Yeah . You know, and it’s , and he’s like, oh, well I’ve been, you know , studying the DVD for the last six months. And you’re like, amazing. Yeah. That’s the evolution either. I go, man, teach me how that works. Yeah . Or, you know, whatever I buy the DVD or I go find out sure . Or I go, nah , that . I’m not rolling with that guy. And I try to defend my kind of like current status. Yeah. It’s like , that’s sort of that point I was making before where it’s like a refusal to evolve. And I think the way we can look at that is maybe more traditional martial arts. I had a text conversation with a very famous high level karate guy. I think he was trying to recruit me to be a part of his organization or something. I was like, no wonder boy . Yeah. It was weird. <laugh> yeah , it was cool. Like whatever. And I was like, no , I’m more of a grappler. No , I spent a long time kicking and punching, but I’m not interested in that. I wanna , I love grappling. He’s like, oh, I’d have no idea about that. Like I just, I , if I was on the ground, I’d be stuffed and it’s confronting if you’ve done something for 20 or 30 years and you think you’re pretty handy. And then, well, what happens when you fall over on the ground, you should learn some of that stuff in the same way. If you’re out there, you’re hearing this and, and you have no idea about leg locks for your own safety. It’s worthwhile to just understand, you know, here’s how it attacks. Here’s how you defend. Just, just to expand the knowledge. So if some, you know, frosty bloody , you know, Anthony golf can, <laugh> just throws you in saddle and starts like Hawking you your knee. Doesn’t explode. You know how to defend. And the coach is watching. <laugh> I don’t wanna tap, but it , but let’s think about it. I’m sure there’s plenty. And this is where we talk about this old school, new school thing. There’s plenty of people out there who are like, oh , heel hooks. Aren’t new heel hooks have been around for a while , but that’s, that’s not how I play. That’s not my game. I think the interesting thing about what we’re looking at here is that is someone is an amazing grappler. Does the belt matter? That is more the discussion. It’s not due like leg locks or not. It’s like, someone’s got a game that’s messing you up. So on a competitive level, this person’s tapping you because they have knowledge that you haven’t touched on. Yeah . Now if you’ve got, you know , or they’ve exposed a , a hole in your game in knowledge. Yeah . Exploiting, exploiting. So then is it just because someone’s competitively good? Does that mean they’re better than you? And it doesn’t mean that they outran you, but I believe that what a lot of the new school guys are challenging is this idea that you have to do something for 10 years. You have to pay all this money. You have to go through this process when they feel they may have shortcut that system of efficiency. Yeah . That they are winning championships, beating people with a different way to approach learning and training. Yes. So this is the idea is that what’s kind of an evolution on what grappling is. And it’s kind of similar to like, if you look at Tia , Claire in CrossFit. Sure. And she, I don’t know what she did, but I think she was a CrossFitter well , she was, and then she got real good at weightlifting. No, no. She was a , she was an Olympic lifter before CrossFit. Was she? Yeah. A hundred percent. You better believe it because I , cause I , she was, she went to the calm games. Yeah. But I thought that came after CrossFit. No , she , she did do it after she did do it after CrossFit. Yeah. Right. But she had been weightlifting prior. Yeah. Okay. Yeah . So let’s so say that, right. So she’s like elite in this sport and then also elite in this sport. Yeah. But then she also qualified for the, is it Bob sled ? She’s doing Bob SL now the Australian bobs SL team. Whoa . And so you’re like, and you know , so she’s like on the Olympic she’s a mega athlete . Yeah. And that’s, and it’s like, okay, well the thing that she did before gave her some capacity for the next thing that she did. Yes. And they gave some capacity for the next thing. And it’s like, you gotta respect that. And if , but if you look at it in isolation, you’re like, well, she became a , an Olympic level bobs SL with only six months of training. You’re like, well, yeah. But she was also, she was also best in the world across the fittest woman in the world. Yeah . One of the strongest women in the world as well, like that’s right. Yeah. So say with that example of like looking at someone like a Jay rod , you’re like, okay, let’s say this kid’s been training for a year and a half. You’re like, has he actually just like, has he come in fresh, no physical work, Hey, I wanna learn about this sport and it’s been a year and a half or are there some other clues, some other things in the past that have, you know, sure . Built this ability right now. Yeah. Second point on that. And this is just discussion points. This is not criticizing like his success at all. No, I think it’s incredibly exciting. No , what they’re doing is what , what they do at the B team is for sure the next step evolution on new wave jujitsu. Absolutely. But the other side of that is that jujitsu being such a, at that top level being so reliant on, on having, well, actually challenge me on this. I could be wrong. Sure. But here’s my, here’s my thought. And I say, I could be wrong. Cause I’m thinking about maybe how Jay rod one matches and perhaps this isn’t the case, but I think Keenan’s touched on this. It’s like, you need to develop a unique skill set in jujitsu that will allow you to beat everyone. But by the time you’ve been through that competition and everyone’s seen your skill set . Yeah . You now need to go and develop a new skill set . That’s what happened to him because technically it evolves so fast time , what’s he doing? Oh , he’s attacking God attacking the hill like this or what ? Yeah. Right . Yeah . Yeah. Right. Yeah. So then it becomes like an arms race for, well, who’s got the flash system right now. He’s got the new thing . Yeah. And, and sometimes it doesn’t take you long to learn that new system. It’s a , it’s a timing piece. And I was in the right place right time. And I was able to employ it against my opponents. Definitely. Versus do you have a total understanding well-rounded approach, understanding of the culture, et cetera , et cetera . Yeah. I , I, I believe for those people out there who are hard charging, just trying to be the best and doesn’t matter, like get to the top quickest, being able to look at Nogi it’s a quicker path. Like if you, you know, there , it is less technical to do Nogi in terms of that , you don’t have to defend as many things. Yeah . You don’t have as many options to attack, so you just need to get really good at particular things. Yeah . You gotta deal with so much more in the game. That’s what it comes down to 75 different guards . But the friction ask for every single one of them . Yeah . And that’s why it’s so , um , advertising to new people like, oh , I don’t have this friction. I can move. Yeah . I don’t need to be as technical. Yeah. The playing field is leveled very quickly in no yet . Yeah. Especially if you come in and you, you do have a background in physical sports, whether it be football or wrestling or power lifting, anything, you’re like, I don’t have anything to be controlled by. I’m stomping, these people, you know? And , and that does matter. I think what is, and you , you used this word before and it is a great word. You said, you know, oftentimes it’s conflated. This is where people bring two things together that are not related and say that it is so really people are looking at no GI and kind of new wave Jitsu leg, leg lock . When we say new wave, we’re not actually referring to Danaher . I’m sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they called that new wave. Didn’t they ? They called, yes . We’re talking about the next generation. We’re talking about new generation, this , this current , uh , iteration, which is submission wrestling. But its um , no GE submission wrestling and, and it’s awesome. It’s spectacular. It’s so cool. It is way more exciting than gig you to yeah. People I’ll buy tickets to that day of the week. Yeah. Like I I’ve been to world championships and seen two of the greatest players of all time stall each other out for advantages. Oh wow. They’re like, God really you’re gonna win on an advantage. Who was that? Uh , it was co bringa and uh , Huffer, Menez . Wow . Back in the day it was very close. Final. Yeah . I think Huffer might have won by two advantages or two points. It was very close. I mean, don’t get me wrong. There was a time at which Huffer did Humach could bring you and he kind of ran away, but even like Bruno Malini versus one of the Meow brothers, it was by an ad . It wasn’t even an advantage. It was even, but they advantage for advantage. And then they just gave a decision to Bruno cuz it went mental. Right. You know, and it’s, it’s, you’re thinking to yourself, man, you work your whole life and that’s the epitome of what it is. Whereas maybe you you’re watching cyborg versus um, uh , Nicky rod and you’re like, whoa. Yeah, you’ve just got this real athletic young guy, just cartwheeling jumping. And you’ve got a guy who is an ADCC , absolute champion. Yeah . And he loses, what’s going on there. Yeah . Like what’s that about? Is it just your athleticism or are they doing something different? And I feel that the pushback more recently has been that there have been some revelations about hierarchical, abusive power and people being like, man, these black belts are just protecting themselves and each other and that’s not fair. And that’s, you know, it’s like big, it’s like big companies protecting their own and getting atrocities and getting away with it. And then you’ve just got the new crew coming through disruptors. Forget that. Yeah . And then doing amazing stuff and maybe refreshing the game and questioning, do you need to spend 10 years getting a belt or can you just be really good really young and, and mess the game up. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s a it’s I mean, it’s a wonderful thing. And one credit to Gordon and Ryan is that he calls that out a lot. Like he challenges that he’s like, these old guys, like they’re all trying to use the same game that they’ve used for the last 10 years. And just sit on top of the , just milk it. Yeah. Stay on the podium kind of thing. And you know, I mean he was probably, unfortunately I don’t like his views on many other things. No, but I liked the way he disrupted that game. And you could almost say he was kind of, he was one of the first dudes to really punch through on the Nogi thing and be like, I’m taken over here. Yes. And that’s now, now there’s these other people following. Yeah . You know, which is kind of similar to, you know , con McGregor. Sure. You know, and , and some of the people that have followed him in that model, through the UFC, again, not someone whose values I agree with. Yeah . Heartedly. And , and I think this is the difficulty because I believe there is huge value in putting on the GE lining up, not the bowing thing or, but just going through the process of a structure because so much of our life is chaotic and a lot of the power distribution is not earned, you know, like, oh, the boss’s son is now the manager. Yeah . And they’re a terrible manager. Yeah . And they’re always late and they’re not particularly friendly or professional or anything. And you’re, you’re a hardworking lady in your mid thirties and you know, you could run that better. So why the is the boss’s fund ? The manager. It doesn’t make sense. Yeah . Whereas at jujitsu, you got that purple belt, you got that brown belt that was earned. Like, you know, I think earlier in the piece, I think actually back in the day it may have changed. Now you used to be able to get a blue belt online Gracie university. Yeah, man. They don’t do it now, but do they not hard? Really? It’s terrible. That was quite special. That was terrible. Um , call that out all day. You can make all the backpack jackets you want. That’s some <laugh> did you see that on? Yeah. Yeah. Whatever man, like they’re good business guys by whatever that’s nonsense. So I personally believe that if you’ve never done martial arts, it is worthwhile to go through a process of being in a more structured environment. But when we look at the new paradigm, which is the, just train a certain way, get a , get good very quickly and be ultra competitive . The question is, does that Trump, or is it like horses for courses ? If you’re a , you know, young, athletic, human male or female, and you’re like, I’m just chasing this thing and I don’t care about belts . I just wanna be a sick grappler. Is that the option? Because there are plenty of examples of guys and girls who are exceptionally good in the GE and also in the no GE . Yeah. That’s right. You would say that they are the exceptional individuals that can, that can still hang in both. Yeah. And it can be done. It can be done. The big prediction for me would be that five years from now. No, won’t be right. Even now. It’s you , there’s only a few. Very few. Yeah. And it’s really, what’s, I’m wondering if, and I had a conversation with , uh , old coach mine , uh , den . Sheban saying he feels it’ll swing back the other way that the GE will start to get popular again, because there is more creativity and more options for techniques there. So once the GE game evolves to the next level, whatever that next step is, then it will start to get a bit more exciting. And we’ve even seen, you know, now that I, BJ JF is allowing reaping and hill hooks. Ah , really? Yeah. In Nogi Nogi yeah . Right. So yeah . They’re adapting. So they, they were losing massive market share. Yeah . Because before they were dominating yeah . Them grappling industries came and Naga and then like all these other comps come and they’re not making as much money and they have this strict rule set , whereas grappling industries, like we don’t care do want blue belt , he’ll hook each other, kill each other good times. Yeah . And people are going there. So then it’s like, okay. They’re like, wow , man, we gotta include it. So now you’ve got all these heel hookers coming in and then the guys who didn’t keep up with the modern game are getting reserved . They’re getting thrown off the throne. So I , I think if we can look at it, me personally, I feel like if you’ve just started Jitsu , I wouldn’t just throw it all out the door. I , I do think there is a fair bit to learning in the GE value. Ah , absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I I’m huge fan of the GE I , I like the, I think that the more formal side that, that can come with that, like the ceremonial aspect of putting on this uniform and training and that like, I , I think that, that can’t be , uh , overstated as, as just a benefit of training jujitsu . You obviously get a small amount of that with Nogi, but it’s much less because it is just more of a, Hey we’re here. We’re , we’re kind of, you know yeah . Like the , the hierarchy, the , the hierarchy thing kind of doesn’t exist. And it’s just , uh , I don’t know. It’s a more athletic endeavor. It is. And I think of it kind of like styles of music, I think of the GE kind of like classical music or a more formal instrumental, like, like learning an instrument. Because when you put on the GE it’s connecting you to thousands of years of national arts history, like that’s the kind of material that the S war under their armor, you know, like that’s how I like to think of it. I’m like, this is connecting me to the past. This is a cool thing that we are doing now. But then I think of, Nogi kind of like punk music. Like it’s kind of, you know, like it’s just alternative this culture counterculture. Yeah . Maybe you’re good at your instrument. Maybe you’re not, maybe you’re singing. Maybe you’re screaming, doesn’t matter . Chas . I’m gonna eat this glass bottle on stage. Yeah. Could I got Pierce things ? I’m cool . And you know, that’s, I think that’s good . You’re that Eddie brother <laugh> , that’s been the appeal, you know, the new world order of 10th planet, but now it’s even bigger than that. And it’s much lighter on the laundry load. <laugh> just rocking the line rocking . That’s absolutely true. Yes, indeed. Um , thank you guys. If you want some help with your training, you know that we got you Bulletproof for BJ j.com go there. You can sign up for a free trial of our program. And in there you will find all sorts of solutions for building a strong, athletic and flexible body for jujitsu. Uh , if you use the code BJ podcast, you’ll get 20% off. And if you’re not interested in doing our program, but you still wanna support the show, you can find us on Patreon. We would really appreciate any support you’re willing to give. Um, and look as always, if you’ve got suggestions for the show or anything you wanna send through to us, hit us up JT, Bulletproof for bjj.com. He’s the man that runs the , the podcast piece. So send through ideas of feedback and we’ll take that board because we love to hear , uh , what you guys want to hear more or less off . Thank you. Thanks fam . Cheer , bra he’s .